"If all you want to do is fix bikes ..."
-
"... then go somewhere else"
This quote, from our last meeting (or the one before - I can't recall right now which it was) has been ringing in my ears particularly loudly the past several weeks.
I thought the meaning was clear, but I offended Harv a lot with this remark, and I think I know why.
Here is the spirit of what I wanted to say that evening:
"If you only want to help others fix their bicycles, that is a good thing. However, other people help out at the Bike Oven for different reasons, and we have included in our mission a host of activities that do not involve helping others to fix their bicycles."
This is what I was thinking at the time, but the words that came out of my mouth weren't specific enough, and presented my views as though I were hostile to the entire idea of bicycle repair at the Oven if it interfered with (in this case) exhibiting art! This realization came to me while I was riding down Main Street in Lincoln Heights by the brewery last week.
I hope that we can talk about what our mission is in this light - instead of the light I inadvertently cast with my poorly put remark. -
I don't what to start anything, but I don't think there is any reason, explanation, "spirit" or whatever one wants to call it:
NO one under any circumstance, in a Cooperative or Collective , has a right to tell others " to go somewhere else" because they have different interests. Isn't that the whole idea of a collective to bring ideas together? There is no hidden meaning here. Its a clear cut statement.
Trying to rationalize the remark frankly makes it all seem even more offensive.
Apologize. Mean it. Live it. Show it with future actions. -
I don't think there are any ground rules (other than basic civility) about what one can and cannot say!
That is an absurd point! I was stating my opinion - the same way everyone else gets to. I said what I felt in a way that did not come across well, but isn't that my (and everyone else's) prerogative?
I'm not trying to rationalize what I said. I just had some time to think it through, and I understand why Harv took offense (I think).
Isn't this supposed to go both ways? I think calling for an end to art shows, and expecting everyone to jump on board with that idea was very naive.
I was also pretty hurt and insulted, and so were some other people at the Oven (I'm sure you noticed). I don't think anyone who suggested the idea ever apologized about that suggestion, or even acknowledged that they might have been asking for too much.
Do you get what I'm getting at?
Harv mentioned how we were getting away from our mission these days, but after the past few weeks working at the Oven, I feel like we're not living up to our mission sometimes. -
There is a big difference. in my opinion, between saying one doesn't want Art shows and telling someone to leave a Cooperative/collective because they want Art shows, or just want to work on bikes or what ever. Absolutely any one can say anything to any one at anytime and usually do (LOL). You are stating a point and I am stating a point. You think my point is Absurd. I think your rationalization is equally Absurd so we' re even. as long as no one starts censorship.
At no time during the Art show discussion did those wanting to discontinue Art shows tell the Art show supports to "then go somewhere else" although its been mimicked tongue in cheek many times since.(LOL).
Where in the mission statement does it say I have to support Art shows? On the other had, I don't think the mission statement advocates telling anyone "'then go somewhere else" under any circumstances, even though one fully has the right to say it.
Do you see the difference? Do you get what I'm getting at? -
Josef - I understood what you were saying at the time although I definately agree it was poorly expressed and came off as something of a threat. I believe you have apoligized for that and I thought that this was pretty well resolved. Not sure why you brought it up in this context. Your statement at that meeting was part of what led me to ask that we all review the mission statement. It seemed clear to me that part of the dispute was that some people felt that art shows and the like really were not what the Oven was about and that the bike stuff should always take precedence. Others felt that all these activites were core to why they were here. This is a fair and fundamental disagreement.
Perhaps what you should have said was "if all you want to do is fix bikes, how can we rearrange the shows or your schedule so you don't get stuck dealing with stuff you have no interest in and get no enjoyment from." No one is under any obligation here. If there are aspects of what goes on that someone doesn't enjoy or think is important, I see no reason for them to feel like they have to take on any of the burden of dealing with them.
JHarv - I'm gald you "don't want to start anything", but you seem pretty willing to keep it going...
I agree that the current Mission Statement (at least the short version) really does say nothing about art shows. But I don't think that is set in stone. If people want art shows, there should be art shows. I think it's fair to ask "then, what is our mission?" I don't see anyone demanding you "support them". I think everyone does, however, expect you to be respectful of the consensus that we will keep having them for now. It's your responsibility to find your own "joy".
There is a real, valid disagreement here, but it is about what the Oven "is", not "who said what". I wish both of you could find a way to discuss that and not waste everyone's time with quibbling over who should be offended. There are plenty of constructive ways to discuss this without rehashing a semi-heated discussion in which a lot of things were said by many people (including myself) that were not what we really trying to say. Frankly this whole debate is starting to offend me. Who do I see about that? ;)
On that note, I'll be 3,000 miles away, so have a fun meeting... (smile) -
Agreed.End of debate.
I already stated on other threads that as long as those who support having Art shows,parties and other events do all the cleaning and set up before and after the event so the Oven is ready to service those looking for bike repair, the Art show folks could have events every day if the place was restored for opening the next day.
However there will be time(s) when space and time will conflict between these two functions - that's what started the problem(s) in the first place and is likely to happen again as the demand for bike repairs continues to grow. -
Dave hit it right on the head:It seemed clear to me that part of the dispute was that some people felt that art shows and the like really were not what the Oven was about and that the bike stuff should always take precedence. Others felt that all these activites were core to why they were here. This is a fair and fundamental disagreement.
Our mission reads:
"The Bike Oven endeavors to serve the community and improve the quality of urban life by promoting and facilitating, through culture change, the use of bicycling as an alternative to the non-sustainable and climate damaging fossil-fuel powered motor vehicle transportation system."
Getting people onto bikes is not all we're here for. We're here for CULTURE CHANGE.
Culture is a complex idea that describes a people: clothing, dance, art, music, food, language, technology, etc.
Culture change does not solely take place through the passing on of esoteric knowledge of bicycles (though that helps a lot).
I think that, clearly, there is a place for things like the art shows and parties we've put on - and that these things are consistent with our mission.
Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!